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Marlon August 0:15
Hello everybody and welcome to the story edge another awesome episode talking to some awesome professionals you know I'm lucky because I chatting now with marketing people marketing experts and I love the topic of marketing for anybody who knows me My name is Marlon August I'm your host and I'm here with Steven Westwood men does the magic marketing himself really awesome awesome guy welcome here hi
Steven Westwood 0:46
Marlon Thank you for having me. It's
Marlon August 0:49
such a pleasure and you know, we're gonna just say you know, this is take two of this episode only because, you know, it's such a horrible backup before. And I really enjoyed our last conversation which probably most people never see. And I'm just excited to connect with you again, and and chat and pick your brain is gonna be freaking awesome. Guys, if you want to know about marketing, if you want to know about copywriting especially, you know, Stephens a guy. Welcome, Steven. How you doing today?
Steven Westwood 1:28
Thank you, Marlon. I am doing fantastic. Yeah, I'm really excited. Because the last time we did this, which, as you've already pointed out, not many people are gonna see. It was enjoyable. And I'm looking forward to doing it again.
Marlon August 1:43
Yeah, yeah. So I want to jump immediately into, into your background. Because, you know, one thing that is really fascinating to me, is, we kind of think of life, or we programmed to think of life in a very in very linear terms, you know, I'm gonna do this and do this and have this and have that, but life doesn't do that. And we, we learn that along the way. So 10 years ago, what were you doing? Were now 2021. We're talking 2011? What were you up to?
Steven Westwood 2:24
So 10 years ago, I I was 24, I had decided that I was fed up of my life and the trajectory I was going in, so I went back into education. I didn't intend to study marketing. I want to point that out now. Yeah, I was gonna do Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did a level three qualification in travel and tourism, with the intention of getting a job working in tourism.
Marlon August 2:59
That is a really an astonishing, like about turn, right. I mean, you could have never seen that in your future. So why travel and tourism at that stage in your life.
Steven Westwood 3:12
So I'd always worked in hospitality, customer service sort of roles, and I'm a people person, I like helping people I like being of service. And it's just part of the makeup of my personality. And at that stage, it was where I excelled. It's what I did best. So it just makes sense to me to go into tourism, plus the fact that with tourism, and the opportunities within tourism meant I could travel more, potentially. And that's kind of what drew me in.
Marlon August 3:51
Did you manage to do much of that? I mean, I know studying and doesn't necessarily get you out the country, but a lot of your immediate location. But did you manage to get around in in that space off to studies at all?
Steven Westwood 4:07
Yes. So while I was studying travel and tourism, part of the course was trips, and not just trips within the UK, but trips abroad as well. One of those trips, which was for technically a different course, but through the same provider took me to Tenerife, where I ended up working for six months for a company in Tenerife, doing their marketing and doing I especially like the copywriting and coming up with marketing materials and a marketing strategy, which I believe is still used today. So that's good. Yeah, so there was a lot of scope, but within the course itself, I had made the decision because I'm going to be so much older than anybody else during the course that I need. To make the most of the opportunity of being at college. Now bear in mind here in the UK College is a step below. University. So when we first started, we had to vote for a class rap, I was voted class rap, I then got voted department rap, which led me to working with the Student Union quite a lot. So I then started to develop her a passion for education, I suppose you could call it and, and during that time, the there was elections coming up. So I went to the Vice President for Student matters roll. Again, I also want to point out that there was a vice president for marketing role. But I didn't go for that when I went for the Vice President for Student matters role.
Marlon August 5:52
Well, this was leaning more to people type side of, of who you are, who you know, you are, versus, you know, something that wasn't really appealing to you as to who you were at that moment in time. Right.
Steven Westwood 6:09
Exactly. And it's quite funny that you mentioned that because I had a really, really good discussion yesterday with somebody about appealing to your values and how you actually choose a career you choose a passion centered around your values? Well, as I
Marlon August 6:28
said, just before you jump onto that, this is really important, not just from a perspective of well, not just from a professional point of view, obviously for for everything. When you understand your strengths, and you understand what's innate, then it's not a matter of what do I do? It's a matter of what, in terms of who I am? Does it does this fit in with me? You know, it's not like, where do I go in order to seek out things, it's, you know, what will work best with me that I can actually really help wherever I want to, and put in, and I think you you saying that you were one of the older people in that space. But a lot of people even in their late 50s 60s don't know really what, who they are. And what really sits well with them in terms of they enter, I don't know, like how best to describe this. I mean, you said the word values. And depending on who you ask, it's like got a different definition. But I just want to ask you, like, how did you uncover that you like to be around people?
Steven Westwood 7:58
Okay, so I've had this life motto. It's kind of been instilled in me from a young age, and it comes it stems from a mum. And that is, if you're not happy, do something about it. Because that's all that matters in the end is whether you're happy or not in a selfish way, but down to the fundamental core, life to shorts and not experienced joy and to not want to experience joy. So I, like I said, discovered that I had this natural challenge for helping people and being around people. But I enjoyed it. And that's the key here it was, it resonated with my values, and it still does to this day. It's knowing that I'm making a difference. It doesn't have to be me saving somebody's life, I'm not looking to be a hero. But even like the smallest of actions can make a difference in somebody's day in somebody's life. And that that's kind of the thought process that got me to deciding I wanted to work in tourism. I hadn't fully developed an idea as to where in tourism I wanted to work at the stage of applying and starting the course. I just knew that tourism and golf people in places and I wanted to go places and be around people. It literally falls down to being that simple.
Marlon August 9:23
Yeah, and usually the best answers really are you know, it's just you just got to kind of sit that moment with yourself and dive in. And second, this is what I like and then you go, you go you try and so so so you you then when what is it vice president of people matters.
Steven Westwood 9:42
matters. Yeah, Vice President of Student manager. So when for that role, I got voted in on something stupid like 120 votes out of a cohort sharehouse out of a student population of 20,000. Sorry, I didn't even like get 1% of the votes, like or 1% of the population vote, but I still got the roll.
Marlon August 10:07
Yeah. But wait, what? So obviously, there weren't many people voting. But the question is where in terms of did wasn't much interest in these posts from from the student body.
Steven Westwood 10:25
A lot of the students didn't understand what the student union was. Those that did come to the Student Union just thought it was for an N us card and National Union of Students card so they can get discounts. They didn't realize that they actually had a function within the college.
Marlon August 10:44
Isn't doesn't that SLN to like, read brands and marketing, because it unless you've got a benefit really is also Jen, go for your boring meetings, if there's a benefit to me, and I want the discount, discount, discount discount, you know?
Steven Westwood 11:04
Well, as a student, that is what you want, you want discounts as a student, you know that you're not working full time. So if you can get any kind of discount, you're going to go for it, aren't you? You know, I did, I definitely made the most of my discounts. I think I've still got my us card, actually, now that I'm thinking about it. But But yeah, so as I got involved with the Student Union, I started to develop marketing materials, I started helping doing the strategic marketing side of things. And just as a quick caveat, on top of this as part of my course, we wanted to work with more and more businesses, we wanted more practical experience. Just because it's something that we could not only put on our CV, but it would help us, you know, get to that next level for when we finished our costs. So anyway, over the course of the year that I was Vice President for Student matters, we started really raising the profile of the Student Union, we started really getting the students of the college to understand the role the Student Union plays, and that we're not just there to give you discounts, we're actually there to help you resolve any issues, solve any problems, make any necessary changes to your courses. So I again, was quite a good example of that, because we did get more opportunities. So we started working with local businesses. And again, it fell down to marketing with these local businesses, it was just a case of outcome and doing work experience for our state. They wanted more people through the doors, and how'd you get more people through the doors, through marketing, through marketing the correct way, the right people, that's what I want to add. So over the course of about a year, I really developed a pool of businesses that I worked with. And not only that, but I started doing more work for the college students, my marketing campaigns and marketing materials. So they brought me on to help with that. And when I stepped down, I only did one year in time, you can do two years, but I only wanted to do the one. When I stepped down, the next person that came in, got just under 3000 votes. There's more interest in really, yeah, so we'd really did our job, we'd really got more and more people involved with the student union and understanding what the student union is. So we were really happy with that. In terms of the businesses from my course. One of them took me on as freelancer. And then another one took me on as a freelancer at just a couple of weeks later. But one of the companies that we worked with was called the deadly canal trust. And the delicate artist is on the back of the Black Country living museum. So it's all about the history of the city. And both of them, like it goes right back through the industrial age and the Victorian times and everything but both of them are separate businesses. One of them is charity, the other one's a business but they didn't really join forces. So the people that were visiting the devil councils were only visiting with African artists and people visiting the back country living museum, but only visiting the Black Country living museum. So I managed to get them to partner up To drink tickets, which then helped to expose both of them to a wider audience for both businesses. And they have done since then done joint events. I wasn't part of that. But there have been joint events, they've done quite a lot of collaborating together. But it all started because I had the idea of getting them to do drunk tickets.
Marlon August 15:22
Yeah, yeah. So there's this, there's a lot of awesome nuggets you just shared. Because especially I know that a lot of students, they, what ends up happening is, they end up out of college, or university, or tertiary studies without a job, they go out looking for a job. Whereas with what you did, while you probably were looking for a job, the difference is, you've got that experience in while you were still a student. And then you did such a good job during that time that they kept you on or spoke about you. And your work spoke for itself, which means more people started to find out about it. And then you still earning money while you learn. And that is a very important lesson that I think every students really needs to take on board. Because they end up thinking that once I get whatever diploma or degree I'm going for, then that is it, when actually that's just the beginning of you trying to figure it out. And then you get to find out Oh, but you don't have any practical experience. And that is a major deterrent with any employer. So I mean, do you have any advice, especially talking about your journey and how you went about it, especially for the young people that are looking for something they really maybe even maybe passionate about it? Because not necessarily everybody studies something as passionate about it? How can they actually progress into a real work life like soon afterwards.
Steven Westwood 17:13
So my experience with education, I have a master of research and social sciences that focuses on education and psychology, as well as I am a researcher as well as as far as being a qualified teacher. In my experience, it's not about getting the knowledge it's about applying the knowledge and that's what employers want to see is that you can actually apply the knowledge there's no How do I put this there's no time like the present. Whether you're just at the start of your course or whether yours was the end of your course it doesn't matter. Start now and start applying that knowledge that you're gaining there are different ways to do it. You can intern you can volunteer you you don't necessarily need to just go into the field that you're studying you can still gain the same experience if you just think a little bit wider and outside the box
Marlon August 18:17
100% I love what you just say it reminds me of a story of I'm not going to mention names and and it's somebody close to me we had a discussion they were in school still and the conversation was I've got all these ideas I'm you know I've created these things. But you know, I'm still at school and the thing is I need money. So I was like okay, so just take all those three things that you've just put on the table and put them together what does that look like? Well, you need to get clients but your your time is really going to be quite heavily entrenched in studying. So time is a is a is a resource that you don't quite have a lot of what your best bet is to go is to use that time wisely. So spend that time researching your potential collaborators. So in this space, it was more in the space of like fashion and it's get in touch with all the fashion houses get in touch with all the boutiques get in touch with all those people and tell them you can make things for them. And maybe they don't want your stuff you know maybe they don't but they at least can see practically what you can do. And then you say okay, you know that over there I can make that. Do your clients by that because then that I can make a lot of and you know what, you don't even have to pay me for my time. I'm happy to share split the profits with you, you sell it. I will make it you make you give me a percentage of the money. The funny thing is just A simple thing like that gets them started puts money in their pocket gives them the experience gets them a recommendation letter. And still, you know, you can still focus on your standards. I think I love what you said, I think a little bit outside the box Do not be so linear about it. And, and so so beautiful stuff.
Steven Westwood 20:21
Exactly. And this is bringing out the passion and the education side out. And we're not. And that is a problem that a lot of students face, they become so focused on their studies, they become so focused on, right, I need to get this qualification and I can do the next thing, then I can do the next thing. And like you said, it's not linear, you don't have to, you can do a lot of things in one go. Now, again, using myself as a prime example. I worked as a freelancer while I was a student, I was a full time student. I was freelancing, and I always had a part time job. Well, not because not not because of the money from freelancing wasn't good, because it was. But at the time in my head, I was like, right, if my pool of freelance work dries up, I need a backup. So I always work part time just to make sure that I could survive, for lack of a better term. But again, through working part time, that exposed me to different experiences that I could then pull into the person, I am now the business that I have now. So when I finished that course, at college, for example, I went to go and work at Birmingham Airport, I was a passenger service assistant. So I would be the person checking you in and taking you to the boarding gate and loving you onto the plane. I I loved it. First of all, it was a fantastic experience the atmosphere and everything was just like, it's just when people go on a holiday that they're happy, they're a bit confused, but they're happy. And what I liked about that job was that they quickly picked up on my strengths. So they used to place me in positions where I would utilize my strengths. So my strengths was dealing with people handling complaints, solving problems, and just being an additional resource for my team. So whenever there were flights canceled, or whenever there were any issues that a passenger had, I will be the one to resolve them. So it makes it easy for my team to continue doing what they needed to do.
Marlon August 22:46
Before you carry on. So in teams, especially people struggle. And I mean, whoever was your supervisor, whoever was it up above you, you said notice your strengths. And it might seem silly or obvious, but how does one actually pick up on someone strengths? If you're not really looking for them, because you've been hired for a role, you know, you've got a role to play. And if you're not playing that role correctly, you are not, you know, you're perceived to be, you know, not good at your job. But perhaps it's not fitted to you. So if we actually see where you would thrive, what if we were to position you differently? And and I think a lot of businesses stuck in that space. So you know, I have someone that's absolutely useless, instead of trying to find a way or space that they can actually play better and within the organization.
Steven Westwood 23:58
Exactly. No, I think but it's correct. Yes, that person might be good on paper, there's a reason why they were offered the job in the first place. But ultimately, they may not be right for the exact requirements for that role. So like I said, what happens is that person then gets a reputation for being useless, they get a reputation for being no good. And the atmosphere can get pretty toxic pretty quickly. Yeah. However, if a business wants to survive, especially with how things are changing, culturally across the world, they have to be prepared to find people's strengths and use the strengths to build the company up. Just as a quick example, somebody who I've worked with at the airport was extremely introverted. She loved The job, it was her passion, her dream, but because of her how shy and introverted she was, she wasn't really a people person. So she would sit there at the desk checking some reason, she wouldn't do the announcements. She just wasn't comfortable. So instead of like saying, Come on, come on, pick it up, pick it up, you know, trying to get her shirt of trying to force her to perform all of the duties we had to perform. What they did was they tried her on one of the passenger lounges. Working the front desk, and she tried, she still works there now, after a six month contract, and she still works there today.
Marlon August 25:45
It's amazing. Yeah, it is, I love it. I love that because that's like, really, I mean, kudos to the people that that we're managing you then because that takes a lot of a lot of awareness and a sense of flexibility. Because people get so stuck. I don't know what the hiring and firing process is like in the UK. But in South Africa, it's super sticky. You can't Well, I guess I'm dropping notice we love the contracts, you know, the short term contract, because then letting you go is not a mission. But when you are hired, it's like we are stuck together, you know, I have to, I have to give you three warnings, and then I can fire you. But those three warnings a copy the same, you can you can get like a new unit, three warnings on a new thing, I can't get my second warning on a brand on the whole on something new, right? So you literally be sitting, that's a warning that's a warning in that as well as a warning one. And then if you don't commit it in the next three months, then you will get a whole new site back in one again. So you know, the firing process is not really tilted towards the employer. And I understand why I'm just saying like, not like it isn't the United States where you just literally get a pink slip. And
Steven Westwood 27:10
yeah, it's game over the UK, here. And sorry. Here in the UK, it's exactly the same as what you just described. It's a three bonus system. And then you're like go to protect the employees. But that is a three month probationary period. Now I only know of one person who was let go before the end of a three month probationary period. I'm sure there's plenty of others. But that's just the one I can think of. And usually what happens is in a good employer will work with the people that they've hired to try and find where best to put them brands best suited for them. And how that can build the team, they'll have that lung goal in mind. But yeah, ultimately, with my experience at the airport, I absolutely loved it. I thrived in that environment. However, being at the airport was also not where I wanted to be, I'd already from when I started by cost to working at the airport, I'd actually changed my goals, my ambitions,
Marlon August 28:25
would change them.
Steven Westwood 28:28
The exposure to education, the exposure to different businesses, the exposure to different people. All of that influenced where I actually wanted to be. And I did think, well, if
if life is too short, why shouldn't I shoot? You know, for the stars kind of thing. So I was like, right, I want to get back into my education. I'm going to continue and get my degree.
And then through that experience is where I got the job in Tenerife, I worked with the Saudi Arabian Tourist Board, on their marketing campaigns. I managed to get a job, not a job sorry for a client working with other smaller businesses as well and large businesses, especially in the heritage and culture sector sector. And it was just a great experience again, outside of my course my course was fantastic. By the way, I can't knock my goals. But outside of that, I also put together events and I can't remember this one event just very quickly a quick Canada anecdote. So as part of my course we had to put together a tourist attraction events. So we're all given different destinations and we all had to do a A showcase about the destination within the event. And people would come in and around and learn as much as they can about the event. And we'd be rated and that would end up being with our grades. So I got Cardiff as my event. Now, I've been to Cardiff several times by this point. And I like the city, I love the city. And I thought, you know, what would be good is if I could get my hands on some Cardiff branded materials. That's all I thought, just a few branded materials just to decorate my table with. So I contacted the the Tourism Board of Cardiff. And I said like, I'm a student, we're putting together an event, it'd be great if you could send me something to use at the event just so I can advertise Cardiff. And what they sent me was this gigantic box. And when I say gigantic, I mean, it was huge. And it was about this high off the floor full of materials that they've used the previous year, but they haven't used up. So I was like, Okay, well, this is cool. So I used all of those materials and stuff. And my son looked like, you know, it definitely stood out.
Marlon August 31:26
And I want to stop there for a second. So a lot of businesses especially do stands, exhibitions, okay, now everything is like, all weird, but there's not going to stop the exhibition space, it's just going to be, you know, some the ideas that I'm about to like trying to get into the doesn't matter what it is, could be virtually could be physically doesn't matter. How important is it for your stand to stand out? And what type of ideas were you thinking about when you are putting up your stand? Can people like really take away because I mean, you go to exemptions, and most people's standards look exactly the same. You know, so so I don't know if you have any tips or ideas that
Steven Westwood 32:18
Okay, so first of all, the location of your stand is important. Because the way the traffic will move to the exhibit, they will get to a certain point, and then they'll turn around, they weren't people naturally lazy, we don't want to have to walk all that way. At the same time, you don't want to be the one at the very friends because people will walk past you because they're looking for something specific, at the same time. Right. So what you want is you want it to be just off a corner, you don't want to corner you want off a corner. But you want it to be facing the way the traffic is coming. The next thing that you do is don't over stimulate. So try not to but try and use like some, you can use some lights to try and attract people. Think of the way your display looks trying to do blocks of color as robux is just more appealing to the eye. And make sure that with the you're when you're at an exhibit that you are always present at the stand.
Marlon August 33:33
Steven Westwood 33:35
That is what will attract people in and obviously then free yourself. Be friendly, be presentable, be polite. Make sure that you are engaging with anybody, even if it's a case of people walking past just say hello. Because that will draw people in. And one thing that I always say is never ask somebody who's just looking if you can help them, because they're always going to say no. They're always going to sit there just browsing. If they're looking at something specific, start giving them information on that specific thing. Because then they're gonna engage in a conversation with you and before you know it. Yeah, that might be my tips for when you're at an exhibit and you're in person.
Marlon August 34:23
I love those. I love those because I was just imagining myself possibly browsing a stand, and then someone immediately sparks over compensation just based on what I was looking at. It's so relevant. And it's it's really like, even if I have zero interest, it just caught my eye. I'm the type of person that would I mean, it's rude just walk away. So you're going to like stump and you're going to turn and continue listening. And that gives you the opportunity with if you kind of asked him that question. They got him out. And they and they immediately DAX, I love those. I love the suggestions. One other thing I'd love to add to that is like, make sure you grab people's email addresses. If you if you if you've got, you want to grab their content, you because a lot of people they actually they don't try that they don't just try and grab something from people so that they can continue to communicate with that. So I love that those Steven awesome stuff. So you decide now Okay, you're going to you're going to have the stand and celebrate caught up. And what happens in
Steven Westwood 35:36
so basically I followed the advice that I've just given you. And everybody was coming directly to my stand. Everybody was talking to me about Cardiff. I actually became so powerful that the student union pet a trip to Cardiff on if the students how cool is that as
Marlon August 35:58
Steven Westwood 36:00
And then with those materials, because obviously they weren't my materials I didn't want to like what am I going to do with a big box from a Cardiff stuff, you know, so I left it with the college and they're still using those materials today to the point where the students are fighting over getting carded for the event. So I've still left that legacy there.
Marlon August 36:24
That's awesome. Awesome stuff. Yeah. So so you you at this stage, you're obviously honing in on your marketing skills without really studying that space much but you you know, a lot of practice. And, and but you do you do something else you go into teaching.
Steven Westwood 36:47
Yeah. So when I finished my degree, and I did my masters, I was like, Oh, I'm kind of done with getting an education. Time for me to be a grown up now and get a job. Yeah. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to go into teaching. And I went into secondary school teaching geography, I got my qualification to teach geography, I then re not retrained, there's a word for it. skills to teach physics and business, as well. So I did that for a couple of years. Now, I also want to point out that I always point this out is that I was still freelancing on the side. Yeah. But Ross teaching I found that as the like this, especially the second to third year went on. My energy levels were really getting drained, I was feeling really lethargic, I'd come home, and kind of like, oh, should we go out for food, and I'm not known, I didn't have the energy to go out and live my life.
Marlon August 37:59
So this something here and I know a lot of students struggle with this, because they are studying and then their sole focus is studying and they need money. They don't know how to do that whole thing. But you know, they, I see it often. I'm part of various groups on WhatsApp, where we have people that that they have like a commitment every single week to join together and, and even parents, speaking, speaking about the children that are maybe in primary school or something or high school, or giving excuses saying x, Johnny's got lots of studies to do, and I find it like, and I get the whole idea around focus, but you the whole time had we're practicing something while you had a full time job. And in many cases, three jobs, you know, at the Student Union, you're studying and then you still got the the freelancing gig, you know, popping on then obviously, both are high level of work ethic inside. Do you feel like that students today have that same sort of work ethic? Do you see people cultivating that? Or where do you see like, in terms of community and you know, the world at large me See that? I mean, do we have that culture of like really grafting on to get somewhere, even if we don't necessarily know where that leads.
Steven Westwood 39:41
I'm gonna say that I'm witnessing more of the capacity to do that. But in regard to the students here in the UK, anyway, that is Two type three types of students. So you've got those that are very academic and very internet focused on their studies, you've got those who are academically average, but they then focus on, you know, the extracurricular activities, music, sports, teams, team building, stuff like that. And then you've got the other scale, which is the not interested in academics not really sure what they are interested in, they're trying to go home and sleep. Now, again, this is just generalizing, I'm not saying this is exactly what it's like. But it depends on the area that somebody lives in, in the UK depends on the percentage of which students you get. So I worked a lot in areas where there was a high proportion of student type three. And it wasn't that they were lazy, it wasn't that they didn't care. They just didn't feel empowered, they didn't feel motivated, they didn't have that support system at home, they had quite a lot of issues going on outside of school, whether it be through poverty, whether it be through, you know, whatever issues that they're facing. So what I found with that bracket of students was, I could relate to them because when I was in school, I hated school, I hated it with a passion, like, you remember? Yeah, I would have any excuse to not be there. I used to go home. Now, I used to go out of school for lunch, and then just go home and then not come back. Or I just not turn up if I could. So I hated school. It just wasn't for me. So I related to this third group. So I specifically chose a school where there was a high proportion of the students and getting to know them, you realize that actually, there's quite a lot that motivates them. So I started using that knowledge within my lessons to get them motivated within my lessons, which then had this domino effect on other lessons and other subjects with other teachers. So it was just one of those places, right? Yes, work hard. But I have my life philosophy and my life philosophy is, if you're not happy, do something about it. Now, it wasn't the teaching side of things, I loved the teaching side of things. It was the school politics that made me want to leave that really dragged me down. I did. I have told you previously about Lisa, sitting in the staff room, overhearing a conversation where teachers were actively bragging about neglecting their families so they could work. They were actively bragging about the fact that they were working till 1011 o'clock at night, and then starting again at six. And I'm like, but that isn't what life should be like, I know that this is supposed to be a vocation. It's supposed to be a life passion. But there's still more to life. I haven't gone through all the experiences that I've gone through and not Come out, come out the other side, without learning something. And to me, you can do multiple things, you can do all of the things. Obviously, if you're going to try and do all of the things block your time, so you've got the time to do all of the things but have a go try it. Now, the other conversation that I overheard in this staff room was when a teacher was bragging that her young children knew not to disturb her before 7pm when she was home, she'd leave work, pick them up, go home, and then then they knew to not to stop her for hours while she worked. And I'm like, I think that's wrong. Your priority should be your children, nurturing your children spending time with your children. And that's what I sort of got me thinking about the politics within, within teaching and scope creep, which is something that I'm familiar with as a copywriter where people exploit more and more of your time in order to benefit themselves without you receiving any benefit.
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